Medicine is a cultural constructed thing. Medical facts aren’t uncovered, they’re made and shaped by different cultural views.
Aileen Das, Time to Heal podcast
Emily Iannuzzelli 0:18
Welcome to Time to Heal a podcast about hope and healing. In a world where there are so many ways to suffer, we’re going to talk about how we heal. My name is Emily Iannuzzelli. And in this episode, I’m talking to Aileen Das about Ancient Medicine. The idea that medicine is a social construct, for work on Galen, and both ancient and modern gynecology.
Aileen Das 0:46
So my name is Aileen Das. I am an associate professor of classical studies in Middle East Studies at the University of Michigan, I am from North Carolina. But I’ve traveled a lot, you know, spending time in the Midwest, where I’ve now settled, but also time in the UK where I did my doctoral degree.
Emily Iannuzzelli 1:04
I’ve been, I’ve been like, like, much more excited about this interview that I probably should. Now Hey, you know, we need to take our assignment where we can get it so and we met because we were connected through the center for Hellenic studies where you were a fellow, and I was an intern way back when this is actually, the Center for Hellenic Studies is probably where I got my start in podcasting, because I had to do a lot of transcription of exit interviews. And it just, like, was fascinating to me. I just, I loved transcribing them, and like listening to the different ways that people spoke. So we can just just pause and give thanks to CHS.
Emily Iannuzzelli 2:03
But I asked you to come on the podcast because you study Ancient Medicine. So I guess for anyone all for all the listeners who aren’t like up to snuff on Ancient Medicine, can you just give us like a little, a little? I don’t know, just like a little snippet of like, what you study and like what your focus is about?
Aileen Das 1:50
Yeah. For your Harvard monies. Yeah, exactly. It’s just like, that was a blissful, blissful pre COVID time. So it’s like I seared in my memory of a good time.
Aileen Das 2:24
Absolutely. And I should say that I define Ancient Medicine quite capaciously. I use that when I’m teaching, I teach a course on Ancient Medicine and this, what I consider is Ancient Medicine, anywhere from ancient Mesopotamia, so talking about herbs and Babylonia, and Assyria, including Ancient Egypt, Greco Roman antiquity, and I even push it into what we refer to as the Middle Ages, the medieval period. So looking at the Islamic world, and so I’m really interested in the way that the body is theorized. So how different ancient thinkers believed that the body was related to the cosmos, how the body was thought to differ from other types of creatures, whether human, plant, animal or mineral, and also how do you conceptualize disease. So thinking about what counts as a disease and what counts as health and how different doctors in these different cultures are? conceptualizing the body and the way that they’re treating it and how different disease agents and these cultures I’m thinking particularly about my unit, and my class on ancient Mesopotamia, where it’s not only so called natural causes, where you might have excess of different humors, or indigestion, but also the belief that the divine can have an impact on your health, demons or gods and so religious offenses causing physical illness are really looking about in these different pre modern societies, how different cultural practices religion, even social practices that affect the lives of women and men in antiquity influence the conception of health well being disease and the body.
Emily Iannuzzelli 4:22
I just want to know the answer. I want to know all of that. I want to take this class. Yeah. Um, so I sent you questions or focus on Galen because, yes, that was my understanding. But if there is like a different like we don’t have to just stick to Galen or if there’s like a different focus that you want to talk about we can change
Aileen Das 4:42
I’m I’m happy talking about Galen that I should probably add that I’m Uh, I’m particularly known in the in my academic hat as an expert on Galen and particularly his reception of his writings in his medical ideas in the Islamic world. So I’m happy to focus on Galen and particularly his engagement with Plato. The philosophers cosmological dialogue, the time as which contains a lot of interesting information about the body’s relationship to the cosmos. And also this question who is most qualified to treat the body? Is it the philosopher or is it the doctor? And so this is something that I’m very interested. I just wrote a book about it. And so I’m happy to talk about Galen and the time is,
Emily Iannuzzelli 5:23
so who is Galen?
Aileen Das 5:24
So Galen is a Greek speaking physician from pergamum, which is now in Izmir Turkey. So he comes from quite an aristocratic background. So he’s a well to do individual who did not need to go into medicine to make a living. So he comes from landed wealth. So his father owned a lot of property. He is an individual that studied philosophy as a young man and his father, Nikon, supposedly was sent dreams by the healing God Asclepius, that asked him to turn Galen, away from the study of philosophy to medicine. And so Galen is an individual that had a very long career that spanned across the ancient Mediterranean. So he had his home was in pergamum, what is nowadays modern Turkey, but he spent time in Rome, he traveled to Egypt, in Cyprus, and he’s really known for writing a very massive body of writing, about treatment and health philosophy and about how medicine and philosophy are two areas that are complimentary that shouldn’t be seen a separate areas of expertise. He wrote a treatise that says that the best doctor is also a philosopher. So that’s really emblematic of his manifesto as a doctor. Okay,
Emily Iannuzzelli 6:43
what year one was it?
Aileen Das 6:45
Thank you. Thank you. So he is from the second century CE II, so he is in the Roman Empire. So he brags about being a personal physician to Marcus Aurelius, the Emperor and communists, his son, he is, you know, living and working as a Greek speaker in the Roman world order.
Emily Iannuzzelli 7:06
Okay. Okay, cool.
So I this the question that you you, like mentioned a couple of times about, like, philosophers versus doctors, and like, so interested about that, can you tell us more?
Aileen Das 7:20
Sure. And I think that it really goes back to that, unlike today, there is no modern licensing board about like, who a modern external board that grants individuals authority about who can practice medicine who can treat the body. So as much more regimented today, versus anybody in antiquity could claim to have expertise on healing. So you know, even before gallons lifetime, that there was a struggle or a competition between doctors and philosophers who were arguing to potential patients that they were the best person to go to if you were sick and healing. So the philosopher arguing that I’m not only able to prescribe the right diet to balance your body, but I also can treat your soul. So your soul and body being mutually influenced influential on one another, versus the doctor saying, you know, we’re the ones that are experts on the body, if you really care about your physical health, you should come to us and that we have various treatments. So there’s no Governmental Organization saying that you need to have a certain set of knowledge is to become a doctor or to become a healer. So you have not only philosophers and doctors, but also gymnastic trainers, arguing that you should go to them, you also have people who are considered outside of even these more learned spheres, such as midwives, and route cutters, and pharmacists who are all claiming that they are able to provide healing care. So this is where we see this competition between philosophers and doctors about which patient should go to them and that they’re able to provide the best care. If you had lived back then who would you have seen? Oh, I don’t, you know, it really depends on the case. So I probably, I don’t know, it depends on the complaint. And it depends on the case. So there is Galen is quite an intriguing doctor, or an example because he’s a blend of both in the sense that he’s saying that philosophy gives you the logical training to be able to differentiate between different diseases, different categories are having a more analytical approach, as well as having the experience the practical and technical proficiency. So he was an amazing anatomist. You know, he performed these horrific experiments on animals. So I must say that, you know, I’m do not advocate or glorify what he did, but he performed public vivid sections of animals to show to his audience and robe, his technical proficiency that he was able to open up the the skull of a pig and to show which part of the brain if you damage it causes loss of voice. So these very kind of horrific experiments, but being able to perform them on animals without any anesthesia, you know, struggling out in the public is a display of machonis, you know, which I do not valor valorize at all, but also his technical proficiency. So, you know, there’s a lot about Galen, I do not like, but I think certainly the appeal of having somebody who’s going to think more broadly about causation. And also somebody who has the technical proficiency who treated a lot of patience is probably somebody who I would go for Yeah.
Emily Iannuzzelli 10:41
So how did Galen define healing?
Aileen Das 10:45
Yes,
so Galen had a very individualistic idea of health, he believed that everybody had their own balance or temperament. So he is working within a humoral framework, so believing that the body is composed of four humors. So blood, yellow bile, black bile, and phlegm, and that everybody has their own unique mixture of this humoral component. So somebody might have more blood than they have black bile. So his idea was that we need to get you back to your normal, the normal that is specific to your body, you know, and he also believes that your your age where you live, your diet, the seasons of the year all have an impact on how the humors in your body are mixed in so is trying to find the balance that is right for you. So, you know, he doesn’t have a one size fits all idea of health, but it’s very individualistic. So he’s trying to find your balance. Yeah, that sounds a lot like are you VEDA ages Yes. And audio VEDA in there’s interactions with Ayurveda. And Greco Roman medicine, particularly those are your Vedic classical, pre Greco Roman ideas, but are your vedo was profoundly shaped by Greco Roman ideas through its interaction with the Islamic world. So a lot of gallons ideas actually entered into your Vedic practice in the Middle Ages. So there’s also a practice in India called Noni tip, which means Greek medicine, which is very much kind of conversant with your Vedic practice, but it’s also importing and incorporating into iotivity, these great humoral ideas too, as well. Okay. That’s so
Emily Iannuzzelli 12:28
fascinating. How did how is studying these things like changed the way that you think about healing?
Aileen Das 12:34
Yeah, I think I find I find gallons idea of helping very individually individualistic, very appealing, this idea that everybody has their right balance or their their own nature. That and finding that balance for yourself, is something that I find attractive from reading Ancient Medicine. I think our reading particularly Galen, versus I think there is this more kind of one size fits all approach to Western biomedicine. And you know, part of it is because just the lack of time for practitioners that they just don’t have the time to do these very individualistic workshops, there’s only so much that you can do with blood work on it. So it’s usually you take this treatment, because it’s worked with X amount of people during a clinical study. But this idea that, you know, there’s different health norms for everyone. And it’s about trying to get as close to that norm for you. And that’s what constitutes health, I find that, you know, something that is coming from, from Galen, who was very influential, and perpetuating that idea, not only in Europe, when his works were read there, but also in the Islamic world and elsewhere. So I think that idea of individualistic health is really appealing. Yeah.
Emily Iannuzzelli 13:45
Yeah, I think that that’s something that like, I’ve been learning about ru VEDA recently, and that’s something that feels really appealing to me about that, too. Just like that. It’s, it’s normal for different people to you know, exhibit wellness in different ways. And, and I think that’s also like I, I’m not like super into astrology, but like, I follow it a little bit. And I think that once I started learning more about it, that that was a really fascinating thing to just like this idea that we Everyone has their own different like star chart. Yeah, everything. Is that part of the like, cosmology like that you were talking about before?
Aileen Das 14:25
Absolutely. So this it goes back to Well, at least thinking about the Greco Roman tradition, this idea that the stars are the you know, the the cosmos, they, what they would say is the super lunar lunar Aries. So above the moon kind of realm, so the planets and the fixed stars have an influence on health is something that we see in the Hippocratic corpus. So sometimes you read these texts and they they’ll say, okay, you’re a doctor, you’re going into a new, a new location, or even thinking about diseases you should think about kind of like what are the planetary alignment? You know, what is the the water in the local So this idea that there’s so many different factors that influence health is something that you see in the Hippocratic corpus. You see Galen picking this up at some of these works of Gamblin where he talks about, you know, different astrological signs and about how this might have a different impact on the course of your fee for you know, so this idea that somehow the Zodiac may have a influence, whether through rays or some other means of influencing health. So certainly that is there and the Greek sources,
Emily Iannuzzelli 15:34
when you like, think about that, or like teach about that, or research about that. Like, are you do you think like, Oh, this is wrong, but it’s interesting to study? Or, like, how do you think about that?
Aileen Das 15:48
Yeah, so
I think the more and more I study about Ancient Medicine, I think about how medicine is culturally contingent, you know, so I don’t try to kind of impose my own cultural views on the past and to promote that. And that’s certainly something that I try to teach by my students that every culture has its own idea of health. So it’s not within us to say whether this is right or wrong, that and medicine or medicines, I like to think about medicines in the plural is something that that is always plural, there’s different ways of healing and health. So I do not try to say that, you know, that is wrong, you know, I don’t know, you know, in, you know, it could provide some measure of relief, you know, and it’s not to me to try to rationalize it with my own kind of Western training. I don’t believe in that, you know, medicine is a cultural construct of thing, medicine, medical facts aren’t uncovered. You know, they’re, they’re made and shaped by different cultural views. And I think it’s not within my right to say what is wrong? I think if it’s done with a patient’s consent, then I think consent is a big issue that, and some of these procedures in the past were not, you know, done with patient’s consent. And that’s where I have a huge issue. But if you’re aware of your health choices, and even if you and hopefully you have a choice, it is up to you, whether you’re a patient in the past or today to navigate your own health course.
Emily Iannuzzelli 17:19
Yeah, I love that.
How did Galen influence modern medicine?
Aileen Das 17:25
modern medicine? You mean Western biomedicine? Or?
Emily Iannuzzelli 17:28
Yes. All right. Yeah. Now, from now on, that’s, I
Aileen Das 17:32
will, yeah, it’s
okay. It’s one of the it’s one of those things, it’s, again, that I always like the pluralism of, of medicine. And that, you know, the wild Western biomedicine is certainly the hegemonic medical discourse of the US. It’s not the only one. So, yeah, so I think Dylan’s idea of using analytical thinking. So this, you know, really marriage of philosophical thinking, observation and scale, this kind of like tripod of things as being really a, I think, a cornerstone of the ideal doctor, even today. So I think a lot of gallons ideas about humoral theory, or even the origin of diseases, isn’t something that has persisted to this day. But I think rather, his model of what the ideal physician should be is something that persists today. And so Galen is modeling his ideal on his conception of Hippocrates. So a lot of our understanding of Hippocrates this no earlier figure who is often called as the so called father of Western medicine, which I don’t like using that term, because Hippocrates is by no means a Western thinker, or the West doesn’t get the claim Hippocrates as their own, certainly this idea that a doctor should have technical training. So being able to do dissections, and anatomy, should be able to be able to distinguish between different diseases. And this is where he advocates analytical training through logic, as well as being ethical, so also having ethics too, as well. So I think these observations, having experience having that analytical training and having that practice, that tripod of things is really what informs still the standard of what a modern doctor should be.
Emily Iannuzzelli 19:27
Yeah. And you talked about, like his theory of diseases, and is that that was, is that connected to like the humoral concept?
Aileen Das 19:35
Yes, absolutely. I think that humoral theory, at least in western biomedicine, is no longer adhere to. So this idea that all diseases can be reduced to a temperamental or humoral imbalance is not something that’s particularly quote mainstream. So that’s part of it and also I thank you for Talking about ethics. Well, it’s part of his ethical positioning that you you need to, to have this philosophical training and to to always approach your patients and try to do an intervene for for their betterment. The ethics kind of work the other way, like his, what I was talking about animal experimentation, and also issues about consent are something that thankfully do not feature in our, you know, hopefully don’t feature in most biomedical practices. But yeah, I think it’s humoral theory, the idea that fever may be caused by excess black bile, or that bloodletting will help balance your humoral temperament treatments modeled on that humoral framework are, you know, really fell out of favor in? No, as late as the 19th century, they were still that framework was still operative, and at least Western European context, you know, that humoral framework is still operative in parts of the world today. So I don’t want to make any claim that it’s, it’s completely obsolete.
Yeah. Well, it’s
Emily Iannuzzelli 21:04
interesting, like when how you talk about Galen, like distinguishing, like the three legs, you know, like being, like having that sort of understanding of disease, but also the technical skill, you know, and then the observation. I don’t know that that feels very relevant. Like there, you know, especially in during this podcast, there are so many different ways to think about healing and health. And absolutely, and, you know, when it boils down to it, it almost doesn’t matter as much like if it’s true, true, right, like as much as if it just like, informs like, good decisions about treatment and like, makes the patient feel? Absolutely, absolutely. I
Aileen Das 21:46
think it’s important for an age of for a patient to feel like they’re an agent of their own health. Yeah. And I think that certainly, Western biomedical practices can render patients feeling like, you know, like really like that the root of that term patients like completely passive and not a gentle and being able to navigate. And this is, you know, in my way, a failing of certain Western biomedical practices, if not having patients feeling like they’re in control or contributing to their own health outcomes, you know, so I, you know, I think that that is something that is lost. I think that’s something that is being acknowledged, there is actually a lot of different programs in medical schools that are trying to integrate humanistic training. So whether it’s teaching courses like Ancient Medicine, or take, you know, you know, doing creative writing or other creative things to try to create empathy into gain perspective on how patients might feel about being just dictated that you need to do this and not being brought in, in or even respecting that health can look very different to different patients.
Emily Iannuzzelli 22:49
Yeah. Yeah.
What I’m wondering, is there any, like, particularly interesting practices, like therapeutic practices that Galen prescribed? Or maybe, you know, that other medicines like prescribes that you can share with us?
Aileen Das 23:09
Yeah, sure. I think the most notorious and this is under the category that I’m glad that this does not longer get practice is probably the practice of uterine fumigation. So there was this idea, you know, that predates Galen, and it really comes from a time before there was any dissection of human bodies. And I should say that, in the ancient Greco Roman world, like the actual dissection of human bodies only took place for about 100 years and like 300 BCE, Alexandria, so Galen never dissected a human body, he only dissected animals. But there before there was knowledge that the uterus was anchored down by ligaments and muscles, there was the belief that certain uterine complaints or gynecological complaints were caused by a uterus roaming around your body. Because as a woman you needed to, you know, you needed to have you know, you needed to get pregnant and have that uterus anchored. So it’s a sort of Patreon patriarchal conception of women’s health that, you know, a healthy woman is a pregnant woman. So there is this idea that Okay, so if you’re a woman is not pregnant, and she’s having these uterine complaints. What you can do is have her stand over hot substances, burning substances that are sweet smelling with the idea that the uterus would be attracted to the sweet sense and kind of move back down into your lower abdomen. So even Galen Hughes reading these works that were written in Alexandria that benefit from dissection, he still recommends them, even though he knows that the universe is anchored down by ligaments. So this is kind of one of those pervasive, you know, cultural biases that shape medicine that you still have this idea that uterine fumigation And I know that that’s crept back a little bit into modern, you know, modern culture with goop. And I was gonna say, Yeah, but like, I
Emily Iannuzzelli 25:09
think that that’s like a really interesting place where, for my understanding, like vaginal steaming it, it’s like the same practice, right? But there’s like two different philosophies like what you’re talking about uterine fumigation is this, this other philosophy, right, this other reason this other understanding of why it’s like to get this wandering uterus back, whereas like I’ve vaginal steaming, to me, like what I understand comes from a more like, gentle, you know, feminine, maybe like philosophy or place?
Aileen Das 25:38
No, surely I think it’s certainly the, in the ancient sources, this is the the practices undergirding this are very patriarchal, like this idea that a woman’s health is reduced down to her womb, and her womb is wandering around the body, because women are, you know, I guess this idea that women have no rational creature in them that you know, needs to be pregnant, and they can cause health complaints if it’s not anchored with a with a baby. And this idea that completely depriving women of agency and just reducing them to them as a womb that is hungry for sweet smelling sense. There is you know, there’s everything that’s wrong, kind of like the there’s a lot. There’s a lot to unpack there. So I think this is not what you’re reading on goop, right. This is certainly a a practice that a happen that has a very patriarchal bias kind of undergirding that. Yeah.
Emily Iannuzzelli 26:34
Yeah. Are there any any other ones? Are there? Well, there’s also Yeah. Any that you have, that you have tried? Or that you that you’re like, oh, like this that should come back like that? So shame that that’s gone?
Aileen Das 26:46
No, I think you know, it, the more like thinking about things that I have tried is more just I think the idea, you know, particularly in Galen, that surgery, because this is pre anesthetic, that surgery was very painful that most of his therapies deal with food interventions, which I think is a very timely thing. And so I like cooking, I cook a lot of Indian food, I’m South Asian. So you know, they’re a lot of the spices and a lot of the ingredients here, not only are you Vedic, but also kind of Greek medicine. So this idea, it’s not something that I think I particularly, you know, think very hard about, but I know that there there’s a another rationale kind of operating some of these recipes that is beyond that, just because they taste good, you know. So I think, you know, I’m more open to herbal remedies. But I’m also kind of quite aware of that I think the interactions with other medications is something that’s underplayed. And also, there’s also a an environmental impact that isn’t really discussed as much about, you know, herbal medicine and environmental influence here. So, you know, I have a lot of feelings, you know, about these practices, but most of the ancient medical practices are horrific, I think, particularly for women. And it’s depressing, actually how much things haven’t changed. You know, if we’re talking about, like, I think about an object like the speculum, yeah, that has its design has not changed since the Greco Roman antiquity and it was not designed for women’s comfort, you know, at all. So that’s the shocking thing that there’s no, it’s not because it’s a good model. It’s just because it hasn’t like been refined with women. Patience, input, or kind of comfort in mind. Yeah.
Emily Iannuzzelli 28:27
Yeah. Wow. That’s such a good point. Maybe after I finished this project, we’ll do like a speculum revision.
Aileen Das 28:35
Yeah.
No, no, I know that there are some individuals who are thinking about redesigning it. So I have a friend who is a gynecologist, who’s, who’s talking about like that there are certain models from you know, whether it’s trans practitioners who are advocating it or kind of women practitioners. So there seems to be some evidence, but a lot of these you know, tools around women health, I just have not changed because, you know, they are not the ancients of their own health women have been reduced down to two objects of medicalization. Wow. Yeah.
Emily Iannuzzelli 29:08
Gosh, that I feel like we could go into like a whole other separate.
Aileen Das 29:11
Yeah, I know. It’s like, I know, it’s like Galen and going into kind of gynecology. But you know, that’s how you know pre modern women health is to kind of, you know, it’s not my particular area of research, but it’s my area of interest. Totally.
Emily Iannuzzelli 29:24
What do you think, is the greatest lesson or insight that you’ve learned by studying Ancient Medicine? Yeah, I
Aileen Das 29:32
think that’s a good point. And this is the point that I’m trying to get across from my, from my students in my course Ancient Medicine, that medicine isn’t objective, that it is culturally constructed, influenced, that you should always be suspicious of any one who claims that they’re their facts are objective, you know, science is not uncovered. It’s made, it’s culturally specific. So I think studying these practices and realizing the different societal and cultural influences that inform them has helped me to to realize as a patient myself that there are different agendas and ideology at work, you know, when I’m a patient, whether it’s my pain as a woman patient not being taken as seriously as if I were a male patient, or the type of over medicalization, that might be a bribe. So this is what it helps for me to to understand, you know, as I journey as a patient about how medicine really is in dialogue with different cultural influences, and to realize that, you know, and that not to hold things up to a certain pedestal, and to really kind of interrogate what’s going on here. You know, why is this being labeled as a fact? I’m not saying to reject medical facts at all, you know, I’m not against science by any mean, but just to being reflective about being what’s being told to you.
Emily Iannuzzelli 30:53
Yeah, that it’s, it’s as much a part of culture, the current culture is anything else? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Well, this has been really fun and fascinating and gone. lots of places I wasn’t expecting. So
Aileen Das 31:06
yeah, I know exactly. We were kind of gone with the fumigation. We’re like, we’re out here talking about wondering.
Emily Iannuzzelli 31:13
So funny. Um, where can people find you?
Aileen Das 31:17
Sure. So I have my own departmental webpage so they can find my email. They can just go AileenDas @ University of Michigan. I also have a book out that is just published this month at Cambridge University Press that talks about Galen and his cosmic, you know, treatment of the body and the reception of this idea of medicine and its relationship to philosophy in the Middle East. So this is out. So you can buy that on Amazon, you know,
Emily Iannuzzelli 31:43
what is the title? It’s called
Aileen Das 31:46
Galen and the Arabic reception of Plato’s timaeus. So it’s published by Cambridge University Press, it was out this month in print, and you can buy it on Amazon too, as well.
Emily Iannuzzelli 31:55
Congratulations. That’s really exciting. Thank you so much. Is there anything else that you wanted to add anything else that you thought of before we talked or as we were talking,
Aileen Das 32:05
I just encouraged, you know, with everything, just to anybody, you know, thinking about Ancient Medicine is these practices aren’t that ancient, that this is the the surprising thing, but my students that a lot of the same discussions and controversies under that there is roots on that and studying the past really helps to kind of understand and bring light on present topics, you know, so, you know, I encourage people with interest in Ancient Medicine to kind of explore it, you’ll be surprised about how little has changed and about some of the same conversations are being had.
Emily Iannuzzelli 32:41
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you, Aileen. Yeah, my pleasure.
Aileen Das 32:46
Thanks so much for inviting me to, you know, just have a chat about Ancient Medicine and Galen.
Emily Iannuzzelli 32:56
Thank you for listening. You can learn more about Aileen by clicking the links in the show notes. You can check out her book, Galen and the Arabic Reception of Plato’s Timaeus. Aileen is also doing a free online workshop about Ancient Medicine and the Middle East next month through the Society for Ancient Medicine and pharmacology. If you’re interested in learning more, you should definitely check it out here: https://www.societyancientmedicine.org/ I put a link to that event in the show notes.
A transcript of this episode can be found on the website http://www.timetohealpodcast.wordpress.com Braille version is also available upon request. Thanks to Jesse Blake Rundle for the awesome music. Thanks as always to my talented friend Erin Drew who helps produce this podcast. Check out her business On Brand Voice for innovative copywriting and voiceover solutions. Please subscribe to this podcast to get alerts about new episodes. We also have a newsletter that you can sign up for on the website. Youcan follow the pod on Instagram and Twitter under the handle @timetoheal_podcast. We also have a Facebook group, which you can join so you can connect with the community of listeners.
Finally, if you have a history of suffering, this is your time to heal.
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